Community

2 comments I would offer :

Lloyds Bank : per the demographic data, there is no mechanism for any Bank to actually validate on-line the veracity of this data against 3rd Party Registers, so when I am prompted at Account Set up to provide any of this data such as Fathers First Name, Mothers First Name, my Place of Birth, Name of First School (or others such as Mothers Maiden Name, or Name of Dog [I've never owned a Dog]) - I actually provide totally fictitious values - just a character string (with hyphens) to minimise potential for a dictionary attack - but no-one could ever guess what the values are as held on file, and so I'm 'safe'.

RBS : as one of the other correspondents said, you can't set up a new Payee without using a Chip Card Reader; you also have to use the Chip Card Reader again if you want to change any of the details such as the Payee Bank Account. A recent enhancement was that the first time you then try to make a Payment to that Payee, you have to confirm the payment with the Chip Card Reader all over again. So its isn't enough to have opportunism to get hold of the details of the Card, you still need the Card itself.

It's not even the large multinational chain you need to worry about.

If you consider even a medium size hotel could have 5,000 visitors per annum, especially in a tourist area. I recall staying at a boutique hotel in Oxford for my daughters graduation, and was interested to note that the Hotel Reservation, Booking, Invoicing system was all Excel-based, and yet the Reception was of course un-manned after 11pm and you just let yourself in, and given the turnover of staff the Password was there on a Post-It - all you needed to do was help yourself at 3am. 

I've used this system over many years. I always assumed that RBS staff opened the envelope and under a dual control procedure verified the contents before creditting the account.

Something must have gone seriously amiss for them to simply trust the number on the outside of the envelope and not check the contents.

What if I never put anything inside the envelope other than the Credit Slip - could I then claim that they must have lost/stolen the Cash?

Hi Robert,

In the UK we've pretty much adopted the FATF recommendations - that means you have to present yourself in person with a Government-issued Photo ID such as Passport or Drivers License, plus a proof of Address less than 3 months old, such as a Bank Statement or Utility Bill.

National Insurance Number (SSN) doesn't really figure unless you're applying for a Tax-exempt product such as an ISA (Individual Savings Account) which only allows you to open 1 per annum.

I know in Germany you can go to your local Post Office and have them validate your identity credentials as above and then the Post Office sends your authenticated application form off to the Credit Card Company.

I agree that there there are plenty of other types of disputes, such as Bank Charges and Cheques, that are not covered by the change in legislation, and it would be interesting to see if the idea still holds.

No need to go to Court as a first resort : this case originated back in June 2009; since November 2009 there has been a change in legislation : you now have up to 13 months to query a transaction - no matter what MasterCard bylaws state.

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/products/credit_cards/credit_cards_getting_help.html
(reproduced verbatim below)
"If there is an unauthorised transaction on your credit card account you should dispute it without undue delay (and no later than 13 months after the transaction).
It is for the bank, building society or credit card company to show that the transaction was made by you and there was no breakdown in procedures or technical difficulty.
If you've not authorised the payment then your credit card company must immediately refund you the transaction amount unless they have some evidence suggesting you may not be entitled to a refund because of the way you have acted. In these cases the credit card company must investigate the claim, but must do so as quickly as possible."

Banks & Credit Card companies now have to keep all the data readily available for 13 months, just in case you make a claim a year later. They can't dismiss your claim citing they no longer have any records of the event. If they didn't keep any records, then since they can't prove their case - you win.

No need to go to Court as a first resort : this case originated back in June 2009; since November 2009 there has been a change in legislation : you now have up to 13 months to query a transaction - no matter what MasterCard bylaws state.

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/products/credit_cards/credit_cards_getting_help.html
(reproduced verbatim below)
"If there is an unauthorised transaction on your credit card account you should dispute it without undue delay (and no later than 13 months after the transaction).
It is for the bank, building society or credit card company to show that the transaction was made by you and there was no breakdown in procedures or technical difficulty.
If you've not authorised the payment then your credit card company must immediately refund you the transaction amount unless they have some evidence suggesting you may not be entitled to a refund because of the way you have acted. In these cases the credit card company must investigate the claim, but must do so as quickly as possible."

Banks & Credit Card companies now have to keep all the data readily available for 13 months, just in case you make a claim a year later. They can't dismiss your claim citing they no longer have any records of the event. If they didn't keep any records, then since they can't prove their case - you win.

Its pretty dark here now as I type this in Brighton at 2pm because its raining. How dark does it get in India during the monsoon season - don't want to be denied funds just because its gone dark - and what about after at night-time if the ATM hasn't stored up enough power - what if it cuts out just as its registered the debit and its about to dispense funds or return your card?

I forgot to mention that of course none of the Acquirers asked me for the Name & Address of the offending Merchant - you might have thought their first reaction might have been "is it one of ours"?

Not for the first time I got impacted by an Natwest outage that also impacted customers with RBS.

Trying to pay some Bills on Fri afternoon before end of month, was waiting 30 minutes just to login, another 30 minutes waiting to see my Balance, never did manage to instigate any transactions.

Yet there's never an apology on the website, or a sorry e-mail.

RBS Home page proudly states today : "Digital Banking : over 95% of our customers would recommend our service to a friend" - try asking that question again today!

There again don't bother, a Company who gives out Bonuses that represent 130% of its Profits isn't exactly interested in hard facts?